Cvt belt slipping symptoms. #13 · Jun 30, 2015. It will show up through several symptoms, ranging from slipping, shaking, or shuddering when accelerating from a standstill. Problems range from juddering, shaking, hesitation to accelerate, and common complete and premature failures. Jul 11, 2023 · Thus causing delayed shifting, loud noise, and fuel consumption. When I apply the throttle again after loss of engine breaking it kicks back in. Let’s dive into the signs and symptoms to help you identify if your vehicle’s transmission is slipping. A clutch (or clutches) in an automatic transmission operates differently than a clutch in a manual transmission but has the same May 1, 2022 · Strange Noises. There are also two sets of rings per belt. a slight shudder or hesitation could indicate belt slippage or belt wrapping (improperly climbing of the pulley system). Otherwise, replacing the transmission is a suitable solution for a jerking CVT. Squealing Noise: The Initial Symptom. Oct 12, 2017 · This service information bulletin announces a material change to the engine accessory drive / v-belt made to address customer concerns of a slipping belt (squeal or chirping) sound. The belt sometimes sqwauks when the engine is braking is holding back. When the components wear out, the steel belt will slip. How Long Do ATV Drive Belts Last? Because your car’s automatic transmission is continuously running, there may be several early warning indicators that you should be aware of, and the following are some of the most common symptoms of CVT transmission failure: Oil Leakage: When you take your Nissan vehicle out of your parking space in the morning, you may notice reddish oil Jan 12, 2014 · 880 posts · Joined 2011. Start the engine and allow it to reach operating temperature. Overheating. Meanwhile, among the 18 complaints submitted by consumers to Car Complaints Problem – One of the more common JF011E transmission problem occurs when a pronounced whining or grinding noise is heard from the transmission during acceleration and/or at highway speeds. Humming or whining noise. Dec 10, 2011 · 401 posts · Joined 2006. The following are the symptoms of a bad CVT transmission: 1. I just replaced the one way bearing which was bad but the issue is still happening. Common Toyota CVT transmission problems are overheating, delayed motion, making whining and rattling noise, and loss of acceleration. In most cases, the belt/chain that connects your input and output pulleys has snapped and needs to be replaced by a professional mechanic as soon as possible. One of the more common CVT transmission problem symptoms is a burning smell in the car. This process can reboot the system and resolve electronic quirks that might prevent your CVT from shifting properly. In the drivetrain, one cone of this car transmission system is connected to the engine output shaft, whereas, the other cone transmits power to the drive wheels and driveshaft. In these situations, the problems can be related to many things. 5m service (about 1500 miles ago). 0R Limited 125K, 2017 3. If the belt cannot grip the pulleys properly, it will begin to slide, creating this distinctive noise. 10 Symptoms of Serpentine Belt Slipping. You need to go inside the clutch area,jack the quad up and run it in gear to see what the clutches ars doing. Symptoms of a loose belt include: Jerkiness or shutter when pulling out. Aug 5, 2022 · We have found that slipping most commonly occurs as the transmission shifts from 2nd to 3rd gear and vice versa. Other times, there is a sensor that can relay improper information to the transmission. Almost 2 months ago, I had the first service done on my 2013 Altima 3. Leakage - any leakage in your car could be a symptom of a bad CVT transmission. Nissan did very little to resolve these problems. Hello All, first time poster, longtime lurker. We would like to show you a description here but the site won’t allow us. The Pathfinder and Rogue also faced transmission-related problems, including coolant leaks and violent shaking. The two long bolts go towards the back. In November, I was helping a disabled hunter on an elk hunt. 0 LL Bean 265K RIP (Rear Ended), 2009 3. May 10, 2023 · The users instantly identified some problems with the vehicle. Many customers have reported problems such as unusually high engine rpm, jerky behavior when shifting gears, and, more seriously, complete transmission failure. Another symptom of a failing CVT transmission is unusual noises coming from the engine area. When we refer to the clutch or CVT, we’re referring to two components — the drive clutch (or primary clutch) and the driven clutch (or secondary). If not, the transmission’s mounts and bearings may have worn out and caused all the trembling. I would not use anything but Honda Nov 3, 2021 · A CVT belt will require replacement from wear-and-tear from time to time, and this is by design. Jan 16, 2018 · Clutch Slipping Symptoms. Check Engine Light If your car’s check engine light turns on then it can indicate major or minor CVT transmission problems. , an unexpected power loss. 5 SL. If these quick fixes don’t do the trick, it could indicate a more severe issue, and professional diagnostics may be needed. Hence, the solution is also the same. If this doesn’t work, try leveraging the clutch by using a crowbar behind the clutch. Feb 4, 2024 · When caused by a faulty CVT, shuddering is typically due to a worn-out belt or faulty pulleys inside the continuously variable transmission. The CVT belt will begin slipping before more expensive CVT parts, such as the drive pulleys, require replacing. The gearing seems a little higher than normal. 1538 posts · Joined 2014. The TR690 was soon recognized as a problematic transmission by displaying symptoms like slipping, squealing, hesitation, shuddering, and overall erratic behavior. On the Reddit forum r/Hyundai, an owner of a 2020 Elantra found themselves stranded on the highway due to “an internal transmission failure,” noting massive rpm fluctuations. It sounds almost like a belt slipping. Oct 16, 2019 · Here are some of the most common warning signs of a bad timing belt on the Nissan Versa: 1. However, it is best to check for a recall on the NHTSA website and extended warranties from Nissan. I think anyone used to a regular automatic would consider the normal CVT operation to be "slipping" in sensation when driving. Shift the transmission through all the gears, then back to Park or Neutral. May 21, 2024 · Last updated: May 21, 2024 11:49 am. Secondly belt dust can be a problem even without mud or water in the cvt. I purchased this bike in 2015 with 550 miles. I would not use anything but Honda Jul 20, 2023 · Still, many Toyota owner experiences some issue with their CVT gearbox that needs attention. Trust us to keep your vehicle running smoothly, offering you peace of mind Apr 18, 2022 · Released data on the Hyundai CVT’s reliability thus far points to some teething problems. Jan 14, 2015 · A cvt consists of 2 servos n belt that changes in size depending on speed n load. Jan 12, 2024 · Slipping Sensation: A feeling that the transmission is ‘slipping’ or not engaging properly during acceleration is a tell-tale sign of CVT issues. If you are dealing with any of these issues (or multiple), then your ATV clutch is clearly not working well. May 18, 2023 · There are numerous reasons for these vibrations. Wait for at least 10 minutes before restarting the car. Nov 15, 2019 · Roughly 250 miles on gates carbon belt. Jun 5, 2020 · When you release/ease up on the accelerator engine speed should slow down. If they're heavier or lighter than they should be, torque and top speed will change inbetween. Paypal Donate Link here: https:// However, it still has some problems that are common to other transmissions. And the majority of them were about the automatic transmission slipping when accelerating. This 2014 Honda Civic came in with a "poor acceleration" complaint. V-belts in CVT systems are Feb 4, 2024 · Choose Options. Which Manufacturers sell CVT equipped vehicles? The auto makers using CVT Technology in more automobiles than others currently are: Nissan, Mitsubishi, Subaru. Aug 17, 2022 · The main symptom of a bad clutch in an automatic transmission is when your vehicle's rpm climb and your engine gets louder as the gas pedal is depressed, but the vehicle is not accelerating as quickly as it should. This means you only have to replace your CVT belt from time to time rather than replacing a pricier part. Torque converter failure. #6 · Dec 11, 2011. The CVT system will have to be replaced with a new one. Once the golf cart is jacked, pressing the accelerator will create movement in the tires and they will spin. 3 Likes. I. Issue: Intermittently loss of engine braking mixed with a loud "claddering sound" coming from under CVT cover. I had the CVT belt and variator rollers replaced at my 14. 2001 H6 3. Old transmission was removed, all additional components were removed and installeld on to the new transmission. The most common transmission problems reported include: Slipping or hesitation to accelerate. TSB NTB09-148A – 2007-2008 Altima. Jul 22, 2011 · Eric L. Gently place the crowbar behind the clutch and apply pressure. Fluid runs around $15 per quart. The gearbox can also start jerking or slipping and the car can activate the check engine light due to the faulty CVT Dec 5, 2022 · By using a chain belt instead of an ordinary CVT belt, Subaru sought to improve the long-term reliability of these transmissions. ” This type of belt is specifically designed for CVT applications and plays a crucial role in the transmission of power between the engine and the wheels. By combining the appropriate materials, tension, clamping May 31, 2023 · Delayed or Sluggish Acceleration: One of the first signs of a slipping CVT transmission is a delay or hesitation in the vehicle’s acceleration. 6. 6R Limited w/Eyesight A CVT transmission uses a pulley system, with two opposing cones connected with a chain or belt. Engine Won’t Start. Other signs may include loud noises coming from the engine, increased vibration in the vehicle, decreased fuel efficiency, and strange whining or humming sounds coming from under the hood. If you notice that your car's CVT transmission is declining, you must take immediate action to address the issue. Mar 25, 2023 · Symptoms of Bad Cvt Belt . May 17, 2024 · Here is a quick summary of our findings. The most common bad ATV clutch symptoms are difficulty in shifting gears, slipping clutch, burning smell, grinding noise when shifting gears, and an overall lack of power. If the issue is not related to clutch Sep 3, 2020 · This Part 1 of this CVT saga, stay tuned. The symptoms are similar to what you experienced when there is transmission failure. Next step is to try removing the clutch. Gear Slippage If your gears are slipping when driving then it is another indicator of CVT problems. Oct 29, 2019 · To check the fluid level, follow these steps: Park your Juke on a level surface and apply the parking brake. The owner took it to a shop that diagnosed a fluid leak, and told her that it needs a new Jan 6, 2023 · On Car Complaints, a website that tracks owner feedback, the 2003 to 2005 model years of the Civic Hybrid had the highest number of transmission problems. Unexpected vibration slipping is considered one of the main problems of CVT transmissions. In some circumstances, simply reprogramming the clutch following a transmission fluid change can solve the problem. High RPMs without Corresponding Speed: Another symptom of a slipping CVT transmission is the engine Feb 9, 2023 · The CVT clutch may be at fault if you have issues like jerky starting, lurching forward, and delayed engagement. I reported that I noticed 'slipping' or 'vibration' in the CVT as I slowly accelerate around 40 MPH. . Banging, clanging, screeching, gurgling and other strange noises during operation are a clear sign that your CVT has a problem. You might hear it slapping around (broken timing belt or chain) as the Dec 28, 2017 · Other Tips. If this video in any way helped you save time and money, please consider donating. Often referred to as “the judder”, this issue occurs when the belt or pulleys begin to wear out, which would happen far more quickly than it should have on these transmissions. After cleaning it with toothbrush, spray some brake cleaner on it. 1. Jun 3, 2019 · Belt Components. The Pushbelt, in figure 1, is produced by Bosch and consists of elements that can measure 24mm, 28mm or 30mm wide. Make sure not to tear the metal gasket it is reusable. Another classic sign of a CVT transmission malfunction is a noticeable hesitation for the transmission of the car to engage a gear when you put the gear shifter in “D” or “R. Apr 4, 2022 · In 2019-2022 Nissan models, third-generation Xtronic CVT transmissions address overheating, failure, and limp mode issues by increasing the distance between the transmission oil and the pulley system. Don't let a faulty drive belt hinder your golfing experience – read on for a smooth and enjoyable ride on the course. May 17, 2024 · When combining all the model years of this generation, there are well over 500 owners’ complaints describing CVT problems such as slipping, shaking, juddering, vibration, loss of power, hesitation, and, most importantly, premature failure at low mileage. One pulley is stationary while the other moves with the help of the hydraulic cylinder , which ultimately shifts the gear ratio eliminating the clunky steps between normal gear Sep 1, 2022 · CVT slipping. Sep 23, 2020 · Changing the belt within the transmission of your scooter can be a guessing game. When this code is logged in Nissan models, it is defined as “CVT Judder”. Sep 20, 2023 · The P17F1 code is a manufacturer-specific diagnostic trouble code (DTC). Similar to pulling out in 2nd gear with a manual transmission. Transmission was reinstalled into the vehicle, filled with new CVT fluid and front differential fluid, and torque converter re-learn completed. Work your way around both sheaves. If you have to replace the CVT in your Subaru, you can expect to pay anywhere from $6,000 to $8,000 for the replacement. Machine is a 2010 Outlander 800R LTD with about 2500 miles with original factory belt. On the variator side check the roller's weights. Belt slipping shouldn’t change the RPM, it would probably just make a squeal noise. The CVT belt is in charge of delivering power from the engine to the wheels. Occasionally you'll get water in the CVT intake if you go too deep or splash heavily and you will have some slippage where the machine is moving when Symptoms of a Failing Transmission of an Altima. CVT Transmission Slipping, Grinding, and Jerking. There might also be a noticeable slippage in higher gears in some cases. Aggressive riding during the break-in period. Difficulty selecting gears. Simply put, shuddering indicates that debris is clogging up the transmission fluid’s transport pipes. 8433 posts · Joined 2003. The most you can do is change the fluid (around 4 qts), more frequently than recommended by the maintenance minder. I have a 2013 Accord LX-S coupe with CVT to which it seems the transmission is starting to slip. All three generations of the Nissan Murano from 2002 onwards have severe problems with its CVT automatic transmissions. Dec 29, 2011 · What are the symptoms of a belt failure on a Mule. e. #6 · Jul 29, 2011. Oct 29, 2019 · Transmission slipping is a serious issue that requires prompt attention. 8:49 am. In the case of slipping Delayed Drive. The new belt needs to “seat” or wear-in to the clutch faces in order to be able to best grip the clutches and not slip. Strange noise (humming or whining) from the Nissan with CVT transmission can be produced which is caused by many factors like faulty bearings or gears, a problem with CVT belts, or transmission fluid. Regular maintenance is crucial for the longevity and efficiency of CVT transmissions. The direction you must sand is from the center out to the edge. In fact, subaru was actualy the first manufacturer to introduce CVT back in the 80s, but Nissan currently has more automobiles on the road equipped with CVT than any other auto maker. May 30, 2006 · Best regards, Mike Lynch. Nov 9, 2016 · At times when the transmission reaches a programmed "shift point" there is a weird hesitation and a very audible (loud) screeching noise that can be heard inside the cabin with the windows up (radio off). May 31, 2023 · Delayed or Slipping Acceleration: If you notice a delay or hesitation in the vehicle’s acceleration or if the engine revs higher than usual without a corresponding increase in speed, it could indicate a slipping CVT belt. Silver 2002,CVT 187,000mi Blue 2002,MT 126 Oct 29, 2019 · To check the fluid level, follow these steps: Park your Versa on a level surface and apply the parking brake. Other common symptoms of CVT failure include shifting lag and fluctuation in engine revs. In Subarus, the CVT belt or pulley could be broken. Essentially, when your golf cart clutch is working, you’re assured a smooth start-up and take off, as Simply jack up the golf cart from the back and check the throttle cable. This usually means 25-35Kmiles instead of 35-45K. Some drivers note that the transmission is slipping. Symptoms. Change the weigth-spring system in your clutch, a stiffer spring with lighter weight will increase the engagement rpm. Do not sand any grooves into the clutch sheaves. May 20, 2022 · #nissan #diy #howto #cars #fix #easy #easyway #mechanic #howtofix Is Your Nissan CVT Transmission Slipping Or Vibrating - Check This Videocvt transmission pr Jan 25, 2020 · Add a generous quantity and let it sit for a couple of days. I am sure it will. What you described sounds more like it busted a button or two inside the rear clutch. If you put a new belt on and immediately ride aggressively it is going to slip and create a lot of heat, thus greatly shortening the life of the belt. However, in 2008 Nissan Versa received almost 548 NHTSA complaints. Should they not spin, that means the issue is in the throttle cable and it will have to be replaced. Shuddering Transmission. Jan 20, 2023 · Repairs for minor problems can range anywhere from $1,000 to $2,000. If your CVT is making a loud whining or grinding sound, this is usually an indication of transmission failure. 008” thick, with 6 to 12 rings per side considered normal but the number of rings per side can vary. The clutch might slide off and come apart. The setup operates similarly to that of bicycle gears. Nissan CVT issues had several symptoms, which will be highlighted below. Sep 8, 2023 · To avoid CVT belt problems, get your Prius serviced on a regular basis, including checking the transmission fluid levels and replacing the CVT belt as needed. If I let off the gas some and let the tach drop some it seems to grab again. May 19, 2023 · A CVT is a different type of automatic transmission that uses belts or chains paired with pulleys to create smooth acceleration without stepping through discrete gears. These can range from a high-pitched whining Mar 21, 2013 · 2013 Altima 3. With the window down the noise is very loud. May 13, 2011 · When you attempt to pull away the belt slips (and chirps) into the lower position allowing you to have the proper gearing. Sometimes these rings are referred to as bands. On average, the cost of replacing the CTV with a new one is about $4,500 if you have a valid warranty in place. Dec 5, 2023 · One of the most common symptoms of a failing CVT transmission is a burning smell coming from the car. Jul 21, 2012 · Stock-because it comes with everything you need from the factory!! Sounds a lot more like a driven clutch problem. If the clutch is engaging, you have 2 options: Decrease the idle speed of the engine, there are idle screws in the engines and if you loosen it, the idle speed will decrease. I'm guessing that the clutch isn't engaging properly or is slipping. Learn the signs of a bad golf cart drive belt and how to address the issue effectively. All other aspects of performance seem to be OK. There is a petcock at the bottom of the cvt cover, unscrew it and see if water comes out. Feb 13, 2022 · Replacing the belt requires removing and tearing down the trans at a cost of thousands of dollars for a rebuild. There are tell-tell signs that you should change it before you are left str Mar 5, 2015 · FLCommander. The gear shift is stuck in the ‘Park’ position. Sanding the sheaves will remove belt residue and give the belt a better surface to grip. In conclusion, CVT transmissions, with their unique characteristics, require specialized care and attention. If your Versa’s timing chain or belt has fallen off completely, broken, or has jumped a few teeth, it is entirely possible that the engine won’t even start. The bad smell can also point to a kind of leakage in your car, whether it is oil or transmission fluid. Dec 26, 2023 · Subaru cars that use a conventional 4-speed automatic transmission, designated as 4EAT, suffer from one very common issue. Mar 17, 2019 · Centrifugal ATV clutches don't wear out that often, but this is what happens when they do, and a cheap way to get some more life out of your old clutch. May 22, 2023 · May 22, 2023. You may notice a lack of response or slower-than-usual acceleration when pressing the gas pedal. Some clutch systems are old and rusty. But for the first few years, the faulty airbags under the brand Takasha were blamed for the issues. Drivers may have a simple fix, such as replacing an air filter. Regardless, they ran a software upgrade on my car. This is usually accompanied by a sharp increase in engine RPMs without an accompanying increase in speed. #2 · Jan 12, 2014 (Edited) What you described is not the belt "slipping" If you push the gas and the motor revs up but the machine does not go, your belt is slipping. A CVT transmission is an automatic transmission that uses a belt and pulleys to change the gear ratio instead of traditional gears. All transmissions no matter it's a 4 speed or a cvt wen oil is low it won't have much grab to apply pressure to the clutches or servos. Essentially, when your golf cart clutch is working, you’re assured a smooth start-up and take off, as We would like to show you a description here but the site won’t allow us. Aug 6, 2022 · Solution: You can change the transmission fluid to check if that fixes the issue, as it sometimes prevents the problem from happening. There are numerous symptoms that can either happen before the transmission starts slipping at the same time it is slipping or after a prolonged time of undiagnosed transmission problem. Nissan CVT Transmission Failure Symptoms. Symptoms Of A Slipping Transmission. The CVT doesn't have bands in it. The presence of lubrication helps reduce friction and wear, but it is carefully balanced to ensure that the belt maintains sufficient grip and does not slip excessively. Whenever I’m cruising down the highway and begin to climb a hill the rpm’s continue to rise almost to 6000 and it feels like I start slowing down. Solution – The most common cure for this problem is to replace the gears, oil pump and valve body. By Tim Jumah Cars 3 1. When this is happening the CVT is progressively changing it’s effective ratio via moving a belt/chain between the input and output pulleys, there’s no gearset like you might find in a traditional transmission though. Jerking or shuddering when accelerating or slowing down. Vibrating transmission. Locating the Source of the Noise. The cause may be a faulty bearing, spent or poor quality transmission fluid, a malfunctioning CVT belt, worn or damaged gears, or something else. Jan 8, 2023 · 4) Excessive noise. May 25, 2021 · NEW 863358. Your clutch springs provide side-force so ensure they meet specification or are replaced as they age. Dec 7, 2009 · 2611 posts · Joined 2008. The code indicates a problem with the continuously variable transmission (CVT) belt slip, leading to juddering or vibration during acceleration or while driving. An owner of a 2014 Pathfinder reports: Feb 2, 2024 · CVT Belt slipping. Due to the way, CVT systems operate with two pulleys offering a countless number of gear ratios, and there is a high risk of overheating. 2. Solution. This is why fixing it is a top priority. It uses chain linked metal belt that actually works as a push-type pulley (the belt stiffens when pushed). However, things did not go to plan. yes. A friend of mine has one and loves it. Slipping Gears - a very common symptom of a bad CVT transmission is that the transmission is slipping gears. A faulty cooling system can also cause overheating. Mar 29, 2024 · Slipping. #2 · Dec 7, 2009. Each ring is 0. take the footboard off and then the clutch cover. This can be caused by wear and tear on the transmission’s belts or pulleys. 4. Clutch particle dust may cause slippage. Some of the symptoms of a failing transmission of an Altima are the following: Leaks in the transmission fluid. Identify slipping or squealing sounds, reduced power, visible damage, and more. Nov 23, 2023 · Release the gas pedal. . Jun 23, 2018 · A CVT isn’t like a regular automatic transmission; though designs differ among manufacturers, it works by utilizing a system of two pulleys that are joined by a belt. slipping or a stretched belt would give reduced MPG and a lower top speed. If you experience total transmission failure, the repair costs will be much higher. Good luck. You should check the internet about their original weights. CVT (Continuously Variable Transmission) systems typically use a specific type of belt known as a “V-belt” or a “variable-speed belt. One item that helps you determine belt life is the temp sensor in the CVT some people add. Sep 4, 2020 · 3. If left unchecked, the problem may escalate, causing lasting damage to your Nissan Sentra. ” Issues like low transmission fluid, a loose belt, or a failing clutch pack of an internal transmission seal can cause the delay in gear engagement. Engine hesitancy when accelerating. i've also seen similar symptoms from a clutch that's sat and absorbed moisture. Mister Transmission provides expert care, ensuring your CVT transmission is well-maintained and repaired as needed. Jan 26, 2021 · Others report a jerking movement, especially when changing gears. We noticed the very first time we got in it that it sorta vibrated when first taking off, but then smoothed out and pulled very well, however, after about 30 minutes, we noticed at first a faint smell like something might be getting hot, then within about a minute a worse Mar 29, 2024 · Ensuring A Smooth Ride With Expert CVT Care. May 11, 2017 · The CVT is comprised of two separate clutches that are connected by a thick drive belt. My son and I borrowed a Mule from a friend of my Son's on his lease. 00 Transmission replacement completed. best, Feb 21, 2020 · Do you have a CVT transmission and your belt is slipping? If so, here’s a tip that may help you out in a pinch May 22, 2023 · Lubrication: It’s important to note that CVT belts operate in an environment with lubrication, such as CVT fluid. The service manager, to my surprise, said that this was a known issue, but only with 2. The following are the common signs of CVT transmission failure: Oil leakage Oct 18, 2017 · Lightly sand your clutch sheaves [faces] with fine sandpaper or an emery cloth. Keeping your clutches clean, aligned, and in top operating condition will improve your belt longevity. CVTs are becoming more popular in cars because they are more fuel-efficient and longer lifespan than conventional automatic transmissions. 5. Locate the transmission dipstick – it might be hiding near the firewall. The most common symptom of a bad CVT belt is slipping or jerking while accelerating. Team Alba makes one; they have a chart that to an extent shows belt life and how it is altered by operating temperature. 5's. If your belt leaves rubber markings on your clutch, study them to determine why it is happening and correct it. Toyota suggests changing the CVT belt every 100,000 miles or sooner if you observe any signs of wear or damage. The Role Of Maintenance In CVT Longevity. One of the most common symptoms of a slipping serpentine belt is a high-pitched squealing noise. This Mar 19, 2010 · Recently my gas mileage has dropped by about 20% and I need to get to 4000-4500 to get off to brisk start. Pull the cvt cover and remove the sheave, take the sheave apart and clean it and put it all back together and you will be good to go. Belt slips when under a load. Nissan's CVT belt is made from steel, which makes it Dec 2, 2023 · Nissan CVT Transmission Problems in Specific Models For the Nissan Altima, transmission issues began to arise around the 53,000-mile mark, costing owners an average of $3,100 to fix. During acceleration there's a lot of load to get the car moving which wen slipping is at the worst. db zp dv eh lb cn ri ra zr us